Tuesday, February 01, 2011

Egypt, Idealists, Conspiracy Theorists and Nutters

I had an altercation on Twitter today with an old political acquaintance. He is drooling over events in Egypt. Of course it didn't take him long to attack the USA, this time for evacuating embassy staff when, in his opinion, there was no violence in Egypt. When I pointed out that even the Turks were evacuating, that museums and shops had been looted, that buildings, police vehicles and offices had been on fire in the last week he claimed that was all done by the secret police. I always thought he was mad, that just proved it to me.

I'm no fan of Mubarak, with my limited knowledge of Egypt, and would probably be on the steets myself if I lived in Cairo. But I don't. I live in England, am a Christian and believe in freedom and democracy, and by that I mean western style freedom and democracy. From my position I fear what will happen when Mubarak goes. Look at what is happening in Tunisia. I suppose the mad idealists who think Egypt will be all cuddly, democratic and libertarian post-Mubarak will claim that this report from Reuters, of Islamic violence against Jewish people in the newly 'liberated' Tunisia, is also some kind of conspiracy.

Christians in Egypt currently face intimidation, violence and murder as reported here. How will Christians be treated when a new government comes into power with the support, to what degree is as yet unclear, of the Muslim Brotherhood? To pretend there is no danger of an extremist Islamic republic being installed in Cairo is to prove ignorance of the real world and stupidity beyond belief. To believe that a fundamentalist Islamic state in Egypt would be no threat to the west is also to live in a fantasy world.

I remember watching the Iranian revolution unfold in 1979. Then the Ayatollah Khomeini was waiting in the wings, or Paris to be precise. Egypt in 2011 has the Muslim Brotherhood hovering in the background. It's much more than a sense of deja vu that makes me concerned about events in Egypt. I also worry about the gullible idealists, conspiracy theorists and nutters in this country who think they will wake up tomorrow to find Egypt leading the world in freedom and democracy.


Stuart said...


Gregg said...

I don't get carried away by events, but I do fear the consequencs of developments in North Africa and fear the worst.

Sean O'Hare said...

It could go either way. Ian is just being optimistic for once, he certainly isn't mad. Anyway don't fall out over it. This is not a UK political matter so it doesn't really matter that two libertarians have a difference of opinion.

Stuart said...

So do I.

Gregg said...

Sorry Sean but I have always thought Ian was a loony, he has proved it not just with this, but with his mad ravings on the EU too.

He brings the Eurosceptic and libertarian movements into disrepute with virtually every blog post and Tweet.

Like it or not what is happening in North Africa is a UK political matter, unless as libertarians we are supposed to impersonate ostriches.

Sean O'Hare said...

UK politicians cannot influence the outcome in Egypt and while it of concern to UK politicians there is no point in the UK having a policy on the matter. Therefore it is not a party political matter, which is what I meant to say.

Ian is not alone in what he has blogged about the EU. Where do you think he is mistaken?

Gregg said...

Where I think Ian goes wrong is coming over all conspiracy theorist about the EU. There are also too many people,like Ian, who like to be a big fish in a small pond hence yet another campaign, his Albion Alliance that just makes the Eurosceptic movement look like the old Monty Python Judean PPF sketch.

Having spent nearly 10 years in UKIP I got tired of the loonies, like Ian, driving good down to earth people away. Obsessives like that turn members and voters away, which is why UKIP has a reputation for consisting of misfits and cranks. A reputation that is sadly justified. Did you see Lord Monckto on TV on Monday night? Another UKIP loony.

As an ardent ant-EU campaigner still, I despair of people like Ian and the image they give to ordinary people. Just look at his current avatar on Twitter? Do you think that is rational?

Gregg said...

Sorry Sean, got carried away.

I do think we can and should influence events in Egypt. I think in a decent world we should all try to influence each other, as individuals, political parties and nations.

Nations have embassies to represent their people abroad but also to influence the host country, where they can, on behalf of their own countries.

That does not mean throwing our weight around and invading countries such as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Sean O'Hare said...

By conspiracy theories I suppose you mean the NWO - Bilderberg - UN -Common Purpose stuff. It all seems very far fetched to me, but there is no denying that the EU bureaucrats are intent on bringing about and dominating a federal superstate. That in itself is evil enough, and once one accepts that is the case it isn't such a huge jump to begin wondering whether there could be something in the theories.

Yes I did watch the "Meet the Sceptics" thing on BB4. While Monckton came across as a bit strange, the BBC were obviously out for a warmist propaganda victory and cherry picked snippets of what he said and did to make him out as a loony. This isn't helped by his Graves' ophthalmopathy (bulging eyes). Quite honestly I thought the way the program treated the subject and him in particular was disgraceful. I don't know what possessed him to agree to it.

Anonymous said...

ho! Ho! HO!

Gregg I do not agree with everything you say. I am not sure that you are correct in what you say about North Africa. Time will tell.

Plus for all people posture online about Islam I never see anyone at a petrol station bothering to ask if their fuel came from Saudi Arabia, which is a bigger funder of terror against the West & a more repressive regime than Iran.

But the reason I am bothering to comment is 'cause you are 100% correct in what you say about Ian Parker-Joseph. Not only is he ignorant about events he spouts about, not only is his analysis poor, but he isn't even an effective conspiriacy theorist crank. He just dislikes the EU & makes up the rest as he goes along to little effect.

Gregg said...

I agree with Anon about Saudi but the West daren't take them on.

I agree with you Sean about the TV programme and its bias. Monckton was sucked in because he, like Farage and others, is a complete egomaniac and can't resist the chance to show off.

Gregg said...

Hello again Sean. I had a really busy day yesterday and only had time to pop in and out of here every now and then.

I do take your point about Bilderberg etc. Regarding that group I remember in the 80s if you mentioned their existence you were regarded as a loony. They have now been 'outed'.

Like that group I intensely dislike the UN, The Club of Rome, Common Purpose and others but do not belive they are conspiring. They are quite open in their aims as you can see from their websites.

In my opinion they are no more conspiracy groups than CIB and others on our side of the battle. People who re like minded get together to fight for what they believe.

Whatever our view may be I still maintain that politics is about achieving your goals and banging on about conspiracies scares off all but the most hard core believers. Conspiracy theorists then blame the conspiracy for thir failures and further fuel their paranoia, perceived or otherwise.